RadioDJ - Free Radio Automation Software Forum

RadioDJ v1.7+ => v1.7+ - Support Forum => Topic started by: richieleeuk on October 03, 2014, 03:09:39 PM

Title: RadioDJ playing music over network
Post by: richieleeuk on October 03, 2014, 03:09:39 PM
Hi..

We currently hold all of our audio on a hard drive which is mapped and plugged into our Hub network box.
When a presenter presses play, there is a 2 - 3 second gap until the audio kicks in.
There is nothing else plugged into the network hub, so hard drive and pc have plenty of bandwidth.
The PC has 4 gig of RAM in it and runs no other programs

I have gone into 'OPTIONS' ' SETTINGS' and 'AUDIO' and tried to adjust the 'PLAYBACK BUFFER' and INPUT BUFFER and MIX BUFFER - Lowed the Playback Buffer to about 190, it closes the delay by about a second, but there is still a gap there.

When I the PLAY BACK AND INPUT BUFFER to high, it shows to be playing, but then takes a few seconds for the actual audio to come through.

Any help would be extremely appreciated :)

Richie
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: PHAZE FM on October 03, 2014, 04:28:57 PM
Hi Ritchie,

As I come from a server background for a 9-5 day job I can answer your question. The issue is your network gitter. Just because there is no load on the network dosent mean there is no jitter. You need to use proper network gear if you are going to pull files live over the network.

All of our music is stored on network servers (centos 6.5) and is pulled across a gigabit network using cisco switches with traffic priority

occasionally we will have an odd issue but its usually drowned out by the bed

If your using cheap consumer grade switches and routers there is your issue. Go get your self a gigabit HP Procurve or Cisco Catayalast
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: richieleeuk on October 04, 2014, 09:10:14 PM
Hi mate,

We already have a gigabit hub box.
There are no other computers apart from the two running Radio DJ and the hard drive plugged in.

Can anyone explain to me how the PLAYBACK BUFFER / INPUT BUFFER and MIX BUFFER works and what I should be aiming for?

Richie
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: PHAZE FM on October 05, 2014, 01:01:42 AM
Richie,

You didnt understand my first reply, the fact you have a gigabit switch and nothing else connected to it is irrelevant if the switch is a cheap nastily made Chinese rip off it will not matter if there is 1 computer of 100 computers connected to it, it isnt made my realtime low latancy / jitter applications.

I could list at least 10-20 differ ant consumer grade switches that are useless

Go out and get your self a nice rack mountable switch like a HP Procurve 1410-16G. It has 16 gigabit ports and has low jitter and can handle hundreds of thousands of packets per second. I use these switches for PHAZE FM and we are transmitting not only out live streams through them (5 units) but also our IP Cameras, studio / production files, streaming high quaility .wave files on demand to the studios and our offices and they have never had an issue. It would also come to mind to check your cabling for any kinks that will cause intermittent issues with the data flow

I am not on site with you but i would imagine, when your computer is sending the request for the song from your nas you are eithor smashing the backbone of the switch ( how many packets per second it can handle ) or your NAS is sleeping / something is wrong with it
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: AndyDeGroo on October 05, 2014, 01:54:52 AM
Although I agree with PHAZE FM about network gear, the issue might as well be in NAS itself and it would be better to start troubleshooting with software rather than hardware. The latency may come from bad configuration or implementation of SMB/CIFS protocol in NAS. If your NAS is not facing external network, you could try to turn of authentication and see if it helps.
Might as well be that the NAS is closing SMB session too soon and it has to be re-established on next file access. Maybe there is a power-saving "feature", which spins down HDDs after some time of inactivity and they have to be spun up each time.
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: nitram78 on October 05, 2014, 11:02:37 AM
Maybe there is a power-saving "feature", which spins down HDDs after some time of inactivity and they have to be spun up each time.

That's exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: PHAZE FM on October 07, 2014, 12:04:46 PM
Hi Guys,

If there was a power saving feature taking effect it would take at least 5 - 7 seconds to spin up. I am running all my files off a Seagate Blackamour with NAS HDD's, then never go to sleep although it does have the option to put one of the disks in the mirror to sleep to save power

In saying that I find it very hard to believe that this or SMB is closing the session is causing an issue but the only way you could rule this out would be to run a deep packet inspection and look at the header and the tail of the music file and see if its complete.
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: stationx on October 07, 2014, 12:49:19 PM
I hope this hard drive isn't connected via a USB to this "hub". Myself and Phaze FM have had this one out before with my current automation software... It just doesn't like waiting around for drives to spin up either.. It only likes the files to be in the same pc it is in!
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: rogiermaas on October 08, 2014, 02:28:30 AM
We have 4 computers separated by the Internet. We've tried playing files over an Internet VPN using 500mbps fibre optic connections. That worked, using 'prosumer' network products (3COM, HP, NetGear, AVM, etc), producing about a one second delay on 'immediate play' such as pre-listening songs. Otherwise, pressing 'Play' on the next track in the queue produces *immediate* sound. RadioDJ can pre-load tracks up to 180 seconds before the next, so there shouldn't be much problems streaming or loading files over a network or even over the Internet using a dialup-modem, no matter what kind of network gear you use. Reading this whole conversation, I'm starting to think of soundcard-issues. The network shouldn't be any problem whatsoever, unless you're playing tracks that are not in the queue (thus no being pre-loaded). Might I ask: what brand soundcards are you using? ESI perhaps? They are known to have serious buffering problems, even the ones being sold as being 'professional soundcards used by radio broadcasters'.  >:D

I'd say the standard thing: make sure you have the latest soundcard-drivers or get a professional soundcard. I've played with on-board, USB- and FireWire-soundcards and they just don't respond as fast as I'd like.

Also, if you are using a Start-on-Fade-table, make sure your computer doesn't buffer the commands your table outputs to RadioDJ. I have had pads for soundeffects that would play a 'swoosh' one second after I pressed the button..

So: get professional gear, test them out in the store if possible (bring RadioDJ with you on a USB-stick if you have to) but make sure you buy gear that have the lowest possible latency.

- Rogier
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: Marius on October 08, 2014, 07:58:40 PM
Today i installed and configured my first NAS (ZyXEL NSA325 v2) with gigabyte connection (but i using it at 100Mbit/s, due the router limit) and an old Western Digital HDD on sata 2 (NAS has sata 3), no RAID set up.

Even so, i cannot get close to one second in delay. The only problem was when rdj wasn't playing anything and the NAS was sleeping, then it took about 10 seconds to start the music. However, this option can be disabled.

I will test it more in the next days and try to tweak it.

PS: I have a tweaked version here: http://radiodj.ro/tests/RadioDJNetworkTweak.zip
At least here, it plays instantly...  ;D
It will work only with the newest version (1.7.4/1.7.5) of files. In the archive is only RadioDJ.exe which must be placed in RadioDJ folder.
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: rogiermaas on October 08, 2014, 08:47:24 PM
...what kind of 'tweak' is that, Marius? What does it do?
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: IanE on October 08, 2014, 08:52:30 PM
When you say hub do you mean hub? If it is actually a hub you will be getting collisions which will slow your network down, you need to connect via a switch, preferably gigabit.

Ian
Title: Re: VERY FRUSTRATED!!!!! - AUDIO!
Post by: Marius on October 08, 2014, 09:13:44 PM
...what kind of 'tweak' is that, Marius? What does it do?

I modified the amount of data which needs to be checked by the bass in order to identify the file type.
That's why it would be nice a bit of testing in the network environment.
Title: Re: RadioDJ playing music over network
Post by: PHAZE FM on October 11, 2014, 06:24:55 PM
I have been running a test stream now for almost a week with .wav files streaming across the network from an enterprise SAS.

I am using the latest rdj version and I have no issues with delays and let me say my network has a lot going on but its all vlan segregated

As i have said to Pete (stationx) many times if you want to stream music over a network use the big boy toys or don't bother.

- Don't run your files off a windows box,
- Make sure your running samba 4.0 MINIMUM or nfs like I am or even iscsi
- have good quility hardware, cables n plugs no cutting corners