RadioDJ - Free Radio Automation Software Forum

More or Less Radio Talk => Software and Utilities => Topic started by: Ken on April 15, 2017, 07:48:31 PM

Title: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Ken on April 15, 2017, 07:48:31 PM
Some general questions from a Newbie here...

What type of audio processing do you use with your station and RadioDJ?
I'm trying to learn and get some ideas to help my station sound its best.

And...I use BUTT as my encoder, which level is best to keep it at, as should I stay at 0 (green) or can I go into the orange a little...I do see that it clips in the red and I do hear clipping through my computer and ipad speakers, but I wonder which is the best place to set it.

Also, do you know of any online courses that would help me get a better understand of audio processing?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Copper007 on April 18, 2017, 08:41:54 AM
Primarely I'd like to know if you want info about hard- or software?

In studio (and location / portable set) we use both.....

Grtz,
Krid  8)
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Ken on April 18, 2017, 12:10:10 PM
I'm thinking Software based for a Streaming station at a fixed location.
What are the pros and cons of software vs hardware processors?
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on April 18, 2017, 07:34:07 PM
My personal favorite is Sound solution.

Have a look here:
http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=641.msg50821#msg50821 (http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=641.msg50821#msg50821)

Stereo tool is also good but as I said I prefer the other one:
http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=8552.msg51908#msg51908 (http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=8552.msg51908#msg51908)
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Ken on April 18, 2017, 08:18:55 PM
Thanks...I have been giving myself a crash course and lots of google searches.

I found a program called Breakaway One...Seems very smooth with lots of different presets...Of course not quite sure which ones would work best for my start-up station, but progress is being made.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on April 18, 2017, 08:25:27 PM
There are many premium plugins, but the ones i mention are free and tested. I also provide presets for sound solution in one of the posts.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: qtronix on April 19, 2017, 11:41:35 AM
I use Stereo Tool (http://www.stereotool.com/) for my processing. It is written by Hans Van Zutphen, a partner of Telos-Alliance. It includes some excellent declippers and dynamic processing.

I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: FreerunMedia on April 22, 2017, 10:34:09 AM
Breakaway One isn't free so keep that in mind. It is a very good software solution that is true because the builders of the software are also building the hardware audio processors. A good free solution is Stereotool, for a stream you don't need to switch on the FM and AM tools. The declipper is great and yes that is a paid setting.

Now for the hardware against the software solutions. Hardware is a good option, No lagging at all so everything you hear is real time. When it stops, just switch down and switch on again and it will take a couple of seconds and it's up and running again. The downside is it cost a lot of money. For example, an optimod 8600 FM/HD digital processor is only costing a small 7900 euro's!

For the software it is less costly but you need a computer to run it. The computer is running the OS, sometimes other things and with Windows 10 you have the "automatic update shut down" option. :D Sometimes it has a little lag of just a couple of milliseconds but those could be enough to get you confused. Most of the software based soundprocessors kan be used by the playout software using a plugin.

For settings, both has the option to safe settings. Yes it is also possbible to export settings to a computer for the hardware processors.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: country101 on May 06, 2017, 05:06:42 AM
OK I downloaded stereo tools and not sure if it is or is not working on my stream. I have it I think correctly configured but then again I am not sure. I have it using the input of VAC from RadioDJ that goes over to BUTT and then to ICECAST. but again I dont know if it is or is not doing anything. to me it just looks like it is doing nothing.



Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: FreerunMedia on May 06, 2017, 10:47:13 AM
OK I downloaded stereo tools and not sure if it is or is not working on my stream. I have it I think correctly configured but then again I am not sure. I have it using the input of VAC from RadioDJ that goes over to BUTT and then to ICECAST. but again I dont know if it is or is not doing anything. to me it just looks like it is doing nothing.

You have to select within Stereotool what audio board it can use. If you have a mixer and RadioDJ is running through that, mixer connected to the line input of the computer, it is simple. Just select the input for stereotool ( stand alone version ) to the line input of the computer. Than you have to select the output to either the output of a second audio board or a virutal cable solution. The streamer like BUTT should have the input selected that stereotool is outputting to.

If you use the plugin for RadioDJ, only RadioDJ will be processed. You have to enable the DSP plugins and put the stereotool plugin in the DSP plugin folder. After restart RadioDJ should be using the stereotool processing. The line input is also processed but as you know, there will be a delay on it.

You can check if the processing is working by just pressing bypass and look at the meters of Stereotool. Also disable the build in processor of RadioDJ. For the right settings you have to choose whatever suits your station. A HIT-RADIO-NON-STOP-HITS-OVERBLOWN-2DB-DYNAMICS processing on a golden oldies station or classical station, will do more harm than that it sound great. But a easy listening processing on a dance station won't work either. Choose one preset and adjust it to your needs. My station (www.radio251.nl (http://www.radio251.nl)) is running on version setup 10 right now because it didn't sounded good for our station. Now we are more satisfied with the setting. It sounds clean and not over processed.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: plauri on May 06, 2017, 01:37:09 PM
I don't know why many many users here (mostly beginners) very very seldom put a link to their new stream, and ask for help... If one can check the streaming, I think can help in a better way.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: FreerunMedia on May 06, 2017, 04:58:56 PM
I don't know why many many users here (mostly beginners) very very seldom put a link to their new stream, and ask for help... If one can check the streaming, I think can help in a better way.
:ok: :cool: We could help in a better way than guessing what is wrong. In this case i think he didn't get it working through the processing so it won't help much because it is not there yet.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Ken on May 07, 2017, 10:03:06 PM
I'm now using Breakaway One and Stereo Tools...Both excellent! Guess I'll see how they both play out over time...I really like the Eleven Heaven preset in Stereo Tools and Putonimum on Breakaway One.

I need to find a way to learn more about audio processing in general.

it's interesting how some stations I've been listening too sound so different, some are whisper quiet while others are loud and too bright. (for my taste)
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: plauri on May 08, 2017, 12:27:33 AM
I don't use Stereo Tools, but as far as BreakawayOne is concerned I can say that Plutonium is a bit too much aggressive and pumped (for the music I play). I use Amsterdam with some adjustment I did after several hours of testing.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 11, 2017, 04:41:44 PM
My personal favorite is Sound solution.

Have a look here:
http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=641.msg50821#msg50821 (http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=641.msg50821#msg50821)

Stereo tool is also good but as I said I prefer the other one:
http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=8552.msg51908#msg51908 (http://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php?topic=8552.msg51908#msg51908)

I can't get it to install. It keeps asking to connect to the internet to download a dll file that's already there, and then doesn't download it
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 11, 2017, 04:46:11 PM
Install stereo tool or sound solution?
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: DJ Garybaldy on May 11, 2017, 04:46:37 PM
I can't get it to install. It keeps asking to connect to the internet to download a dll file that's already there, and then doesn't download it

I'm pretty sure Sound Solution isn't developed anymore.. So there won't be anywhere to download files from, its at least 15 years old to my knowledge as a I first tried it with S*M back in 2002 and it caused more headaches than it solved.

If it's not installing then there ain't a great deal anyone can do about it... You'll have to find another way to process your sound.

There used to be a warning with the DSP stacker about sound solution slamming the CPU to 100% if it wasn't properly shutdown.

Quote
* SoundSolution still slams CPU to 100% if you stop RDJ before removing it.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 11, 2017, 05:17:57 PM
I am using without any problems whatsoever on W10. The download link still works: https://support.xmplay.com/files_view.php?file_id=8 (https://support.xmplay.com/files_view.php?file_id=8)

I like it because as an audio engineer I understand the way it operates. Contrary to the overly complicated interface that Stereo tool uses.
Of course in both applications the presets are complete trash. I was able to make decent presets in both applications. Ultimately I choose to keep using Sound solution, since the UI makes more sense to me.

As for the installation: Are you able to find dsp_ss131b.dll file?
This file should be placed in: \RadioDJ\Plugins\

I'm pretty sure you can simply copy it over. I think that is all you need. The preset files for Sound solution shall be placed in: \RadioDJ\

That's all. Then you only need to start the plug in in RDJ using the DSP plug in. I have also added the DSP plug in to the quick access buttons on the bottom of the RDJ UI. If you have any problems or questions feel free to ask.



I have added the slightly updated presets I use in the attachment.

(http://i.imgur.com/A4rxjID.png)


Preset:


The emphasis with these presets is on transparency and control over the loudness of the output.
The presets will slightly enhance "clarity" and the stereo image. The compression and limiting is spread through all stages to reduce pumping and unnecessary artifacts.

Optionally you can use the Overdrive slider to make the sound louder and slightly "warmer", but note that it will also drive the components more. Use with caution. I personally don't use this option, but it's fine at low values (2dB).



Please also note that: You need to disable all native RDJ Audio processing, as well as lower the in chain volume! See the attached pic.

(http://i.imgur.com/2GmWWVL.png)

GL
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 11, 2017, 09:28:21 PM
I put dsp_ss131b.dll in the C:\RadioDJ\Plugins folder
I put it in the C:\SoundSolutions folder and in the C:\SoundSolutions\Plugins
it still doesn't see/find it and kills the install
And the link you gave is where I downloaded it from
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 11, 2017, 09:50:09 PM
Go to: Options > Plugins > DSP > Show

Here is the chain of dsp plug ins that RDJ will use. In the upper window you should see the Sound Solution listed. Then doble click on it to start using it.

(http://i.imgur.com/CxkiCWw.png)

Here's how to add DSP to your shortcut buttons:

(http://i.imgur.com/2FP6oo3.png)

Let me know if u still have problems.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 11, 2017, 10:14:44 PM
The dsp_ss131b.dll file I have I downloaded from the internet. it didn't come from SoundSolutions

And where would I put your preset files?
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 11, 2017, 10:27:57 PM
First let's make it work. Sound solution is a very old plug in. It is no longer being maintained. But I still use it just fine. As far as I know the dll file is all you need. Are you able to use the plug in with the default preset?

If yes then put the "ss6.dat" and "ss7.dat" file next to (same folder as) "RadioDJ.exe". The ptesets will be at position 6 and 7. You could rename "ss6.dat" and "ss7.dat" to "ss0.dat" and "ss1.dat". I will also replace the zip file in the thread.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 12, 2017, 12:21:32 AM
ok, it's working

but when i click on "LOAD" to load your presents, nothing happens.

i renamed both and put them in the same directory as radiodj.exe
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:31 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/A4rxjID.png)

Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 12, 2017, 01:14:40 AM
ok, now it works  :ok:

but i'm not hearing any difference between +4 and +4AGC
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 12, 2017, 02:31:00 AM
ok, now it works  :ok:

but i'm not hearing any difference between +4 and +4AGC

The only difference is the Automatic Gain Control (AGC) Max gain:
You can also set Max gain somewhere in between.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 12, 2017, 08:55:17 AM
Got it. :ok:
Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 12, 2017, 02:54:09 PM
Welcome.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: DJ Garybaldy on May 12, 2017, 05:03:46 PM
Can I ask if its Windows 7 or Windows 10 you have this working on?

Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 12, 2017, 05:09:03 PM
I use it on W10 but I'm pretty sure I have also used it on W7. It's only a .dll file so it's not a big deal, If it doesn't work for some reason. Tho like I said I never had any problems.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on May 13, 2017, 03:39:55 AM
I'm using it on Windows 7
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: country101 on May 24, 2017, 12:06:48 AM
OK the dll file needs to go in the DSP plugin folder for those who dont know or could not follow what was going on. I was confused as all get out but then I found the answer in another thread that helped. I have it running on my rock station with the soft +4 AGC but I would like a bit more bass to it. I think it sounds good though. https://bogo1.bgstreams.com:5150/asylumrock2 (https://bogo1.bgstreams.com:5150/asylumrock2) for those who want to listen or you can listen at the same URL with asylumrock minus the 2 at the end.


I am using without any problems whatsoever on W10. The download link still works: https://support.xmplay.com/files_view.php?file_id=8 (https://support.xmplay.com/files_view.php?file_id=8)

I like it because as an audio engineer I understand the way it operates. Contrary to the overly complicated interface that Stereo tool uses.
Of course in both applications the presets are complete trash. I was able to make decent presets in both applications. Ultimately I choose to keep using Sound solution, since the UI makes more sense to me.

As for the installation: Are you able to find dsp_ss131b.dll file?
This file should be placed in: \RadioDJ\Plugins\

I'm pretty sure you can simply copy it over. I think that is all you need. The preset files for Sound solution shall be placed in: \RadioDJ\

That's all. Then you only need to start the plug in in RDJ using the DSP plug in. I have also added the DSP plug in to the quick access buttons on the bottom of the RDJ UI. If you have any problems or questions feel free to ask.



I have added the slightly updated presets I use in the attachment.

(http://i.imgur.com/A4rxjID.png)

  • Use the [ + ] [ - ] to move to the preset you want to use, then press load.
  • The left box with name tells you your current preset in use and the name box on the right will show you what preset is selected for loading or if you want to save a new preset to the position.
  • You can also see the [ 0 ] between the above boxes. This represents the preset position. Preset 0 = ss0.dat file.

Preset:

  • +4 limits the amount of the AGC and is the most transparent version, however it may not boost some quiet songs enough. (classical music, quiet recordings)
  • +4 AGC doesn't limit the the AGC and will boost the sound as much as needed. High amplitude transitions might be "bumpy" but it's generally just fine.

The emphasis with these presets is on transparency and control over the loudness of the output.
The presets will slightly enhance "clarity" and the stereo image. The compression and limiting is spread through all stages to reduce pumping and unnecessary artifacts.

Optionally you can use the Overdrive slider to make the sound louder and slightly "warmer", but note that it will also drive the components more. Use with caution. I personally don't use this option, but it's fine at low values (2dB).



GL
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: Filip83 on May 24, 2017, 12:31:22 AM
You may be able to add some bass with bass eq. Just add some gain (few dB), but be careful! You can also lower the eq frequency, but I wouldn't suggest to go lower than 60Hz. I found I liked 105Hz the most personally. It's also worth noting that small speakers (5") can't really reproduce frequencies below ~80Hz. It's very likely that the majority of listeners have relatively small *******. :)

Another option is to amp up the "band gain" for the low frequency band in the multi band compressor (seen on picture). Make sure that you select "cfg" (bottom one) + Compressor (as in picture) and then up the "Band gain slightly".

In either case I wouldn't recommend boosting for more than 3dB, but that is a matter of preference. Ideally you want the various stages to show activity, but not too much. The key is moderation. Instead of aggressively use one stage we use multiple stages slightly, to achieve the same effect.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: country101 on May 24, 2017, 01:10:44 AM
Not sure if I am following you but I am looking at your ideas for some things. I want to just drop in some more low end but not to much if you think it is there let me know where you think I could.
 

You may be able to add some bass with bass eq. Just add some gain (few dB), but be careful! You can also lower the eq frequency, but I wouldn't suggest to go lower than 60Hz. I found I liked 105Hz the most personally. It's also worth noting that small speakers (5") can't really reproduce frequencies below ~80Hz. It's very likely that the majority of listeners have relatively small *******. :)

Another option is to amp up the "band gain" for the low frequency band in the multi band compressor (seen on picture). Make sure that you select "cfg" (bottom one) + Compressor (as in picture) and then up the "Band gain slightly".

In either case I wouldn't recommend boosting for more than 3dB, but that is a matter of preference. Ideally you want the various stages to show activity, but not too much. The key is moderation. Instead of aggressively use one stage we use multiple stages slightly, to achieve the same effect.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: djclewes on January 14, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
says needs winamp wrapper download. i select yes and it fails and i cant find a way to download it even after installing winamp.  windows 7
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on January 14, 2020, 01:45:22 PM
You need the Winamp DSP plugin, not Winamp
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: ricky on January 14, 2020, 04:11:45 PM
i use the radiodj processing with breakaway on magnifying glass
http://51.255.69.2:8006/stream
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on January 15, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
says needs winamp wrapper download. i select yes and it fails and i cant find a way to download it even after installing winamp.  windows 7

And, by the way, this does not work on the new Radiodj version. Only 1.8.2
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: FreerunMedia on January 16, 2020, 03:05:28 PM
Correct and if you still want to use Stereotool or any other sound processing, install a standalone. There are stream apps that can handle plugins though.
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: RFU on January 16, 2020, 03:12:54 PM
stream apps are not going to handle radiodj 1.8.2 plugins
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: DJ Garybaldy on January 16, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
I don't know why anyone would external sound processing when the RadioDJ audio processing is setup correctly everything sounds great.
#JustSaying
Title: Re: Audio Processing and Some Questions
Post by: FreerunMedia on January 17, 2020, 11:59:50 AM
stream apps are not going to handle radiodj 1.8.2 plugins

Not realy, i know that there is a stream app that can handle plugins. Ik think it was restreamer or something like that. You can put the stereotool "winamp" plugin into a folder and it starts automatically when the stream app starts. So there are apps that can handle plugins.

I don't know why anyone would external sound processing when the RadioDJ audio processing is setup correctly everything sounds great.
#JustSaying

Also true but some want to have a little more control over the way the music is processed. Personally i wanted to get a simular sound like NPO Radio 2 in the Netherlands. It sounds clean and not that hard processed. In my case it was in some casea not working like i wanted to. So i wanted to have more control. But you are right, for some people it could be more than sufficient to work with.