Author Topic: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?  (Read 1684 times)

RFU

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Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« on: June 16, 2018, 08:19:00 AM »
Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?

Like many internet radio stations, I do it as a hobby. I don't sell ads and I don't make any money from it. It's a hobby, not a career.

So, now Shoutcast wants to get paid. A minimum of 14,9 euros or dollars depending on your location and depending on the number of listeners you have. Do they really think their 75,000+ users are going to gleefully pony up every month?

Their Monetization program is shit. Nobody gets paid and obviously they're not making enough on it either.

Songposter wants to get paid now. Another 5 Euros a month.

Nobex Partners provides free IOS, Android and Blackberry apps for stations. In exchange, the apps are full of pop up advertising. They were free, now they want to get paid every time you have a problem or ask a question. $30 per problem. With shoutcast screwing over everyone, if you have a Nobex app, it's $30 to change the stream info.

And soon, RadioDJ just to get back to the functionality that the previous version had.

It seems this year everyone has their hand out. So, unless you're willing to fork out a lot of cash every month for your hobby, it seems to me that for the most part, internet radio is dead
Гордий бути українцем, Ми - Радіо Вільної України.

He-j

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 12:32:57 PM »
The software I am using is free (so far).

1. Radio automation software - RadioDJ support by forum
2. Stream provider - MyRadioStream (www.myradiostream.com) basic support no forum
3. Encoder - MB Recaster (http://www.mbradio.it/en/mb-recaster/mb-recaster-free) support by forum
4. Audio processing - Stereo Tool (https://www.stereotool.com/) support by forum
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RFU

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2018, 02:53:09 PM »
If you're using radioDJ 2.0 it has half the functionality of 1.82
I've been told to stay away from myradiostream by many people
the other two don't apply because I never mentioned them and their not an issue
Гордий бути українцем, Ми - Радіо Вільної України.

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 06:24:29 PM »
Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
I don't think it's being 'killed off', more like it's being 'exclusified' to coin a term.

What I mean is that internet radio is actually a big thing right now, and just like any 'big thing', there are entities out there that want to make it an exclusive market, that way they (these entities) can gain the most capitol from it. This process has the effect of pushing the smaller stations and hobbyists out so that there is room for the bigger stations and networks. One of the ways that they can do this is to buy up or run off any service that allows a person to do this kind of thing free or very inexpensively.
In essence, they are 'weeding out the riff-raff', us. They then offer a 'solution', if you want to remain broadcasting then we will cut you a break and let you join our exclusive club, but you will have to pay dues that you really cannot afford, and that is the whole point, if you can't afford to do it then you don't need to do it. That is the way they look at things.
They won't be able to completely kill off the hobbyist stations, we're an inventive bunch and will find a way to keep broadcasting, but they definitely can make life hard on us...
Steve 'Capt Fuzzy' Wade
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PROducer

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 06:41:11 PM »
If you're using radioDJ 2.0 it has half the functionality of 1.82
I've been told to stay away from myradiostream by many people
the other two don't apply because I never mentioned them and their not an issue
Why stay away from myradiostream?  I pay annually for their service, and it costs me less than $60CDN annually.  I'm in my second year, and very happy with the service.

I also upgraded to RDJ V2 a few month ago, and do not find it has half the funtionality of 1.8.2.  I don't think anything has been removed, but there are a few additions which I think are absolutely fantastic.  Having audio files trigger manual events is one that is genius.  I created 0.1 sec audio files that I can schedule that do some amazing things.  One I put at the end of my hour will, if triggered because the hour is short for songs, pick a random track to play, and add itself again to the end of the queue!  My hours are never too short now!  Having the listener count recorded in the history is a big plus.


ignitenz

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2018, 12:00:33 PM »
I found, doing a trial, radiostream to be deficient in terms of support, though the product itself was fine. This caused me to rethink how I did things.

Now I use IceCast2 on an old PC, meaning I can serve from home, so no further payment required there; I use BUTT as the encoder, free again; and, ofcourse RDJ.

Where I pay is for royalties (the real killer @$600NZ p/a), our website hosting/URL, audio imaging, and widgets (Now/last played) and secure Stream funtionality ($6NZ ea per month).

Consider hosting your own stream. It's worth the effort to search google and tinker until you get something that works.

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2018, 05:42:22 PM »
...Now I use IceCast2 on an old PC, meaning I can serve from home, so no further payment required there; I use BUTT as the encoder, free again; and, ofcourse RDJ.
How many listeners can you have serving your own feed?  And does having more listeners increase your bandwidth usage incrementally?  My service allows for 200 listeners at one time, and I only eat bandwidth for streaming to them.
Quote
Where I pay is for royalties (the real killer @$600NZ p/a), our website hosting/URL, audio imaging, and widgets (Now/last played) and secure Stream funtionality ($6NZ ea per month).
$600!  ??? Ouch!  We're lucky here in Canada, it's about $100 annually + a percentage of your advertising income.  I do it for my sanity  :bash: and don't sell ads on my station!  Plus being a one man outfit, I don't have time to deal with those matters.

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 10:37:27 AM »
I found, doing a trial, radiostream to be deficient in terms of support, though the product itself was fine. This caused me to rethink how I did things.

Now I use IceCast2 on an old PC, meaning I can serve from home, so no further payment required there; I use BUTT as the encoder, free again; and, ofcourse RDJ.

Where I pay is for royalties (the real killer @$600NZ p/a), our website hosting/URL, audio imaging, and widgets (Now/last played) and secure Stream funtionality ($6NZ ea per month).

Consider hosting your own stream. It's worth the effort to search google and tinker until you get something that works.

Well i am running MyRadioStream for a while now and we have no problems. Offcourse the sometimes stream hickup's but that is less than once a year. We pay monthly to them and service is no problem at all. Most of the times when there is a problem, it is solved very fast or we get a fast responce.

Now for running your own server that is possible and yes you have everything in your own hand but you have to think about this. When running your own server, you need to have more than enough upload available. Running 2 streams, one at 192kbps mp3 and 64kbps AAC stream, that is around 256kbps upload each second. Now when 10 people are connected to your stream this add up very fast. A group of 200 listeners is at least 52mbps upload. With a 10mbps upload that is no go.
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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 11:27:44 AM »
Internet radio has survived many attempts to kill it off....

I don't think it will ever die (unless the Internet suddenly was to suddenly go off all across the world)

There are thousands of stations out there still who are using the likes of Radionomy and Shoutcast services quite happily

Quote
Do they really think their 75,000+ users are going to gleefully pony up every month?

As for the new Shoutcast for business service I reckon the €14.9 euros per month may not scare off a lot of people, Then again it all depends on what Shoutcast's Terms and Conditions are likely to be...

Quote
It seems this year everyone has their hand out. So, unless you're willing to fork out a lot of cash every month for your hobby, it seems to me that for the most part, internet radio is dead

Servers all cost money to keep going whether you're a small time Shoutcast host of a big Shoutcast host... The cost of living goes up year on year, so yes people will put up their prices if the servers they're hosting on suddenly cost them more per month/year.

Quote
So, unless you're willing to fork out a lot of cash every month for your hobby

If you're deadly serious about your Hobby then you will have to pay out something somewhere along the line eventually. It was costing me upwards of £16  a month just for Shoutcast servers with 10 slots on each stream when I first started out doing internet radio back in 2002 (I'd imagine it would be double that now with some hosts)

The free Shoutcast servers just aren't worth using as they cut out and buffer a lot from my experience(s) in the past.

Internet radio is only getting stronger from where I'm sitting because there are so many people doing it across the world now.


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RFU

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 12:44:30 PM »
Why stay away from myradiostream?  I pay annually for their service, and it costs me less than $60CDN annually.  I'm in my second year, and very happy with the service.

I also upgraded to RDJ V2 a few month ago, and do not find it has half the funtionality of 1.8.2.  I don't think anything has been removed, but there are a few additions which I think are absolutely fantastic.  Having audio files trigger manual events is one that is genius.  I created 0.1 sec audio files that I can schedule that do some amazing things.  One I put at the end of my hour will, if triggered because the hour is short for songs, pick a random track to play, and add itself again to the end of the queue!  My hours are never too short now!  Having the listener count recorded in the history is a big plus.

No plugins or ability to add plugins for one thing, off the top of my head
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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 06:19:46 PM »
There are thousands of stations out there still who are using the likes of Radionomy and Shoutcast services quite happily...
This makes me chuckle that people stay with Radionomy.  After I left Radionomy, I kept the Radionomy Facebook group coming up in my feed. (This was last March-April, when you couldn't stream live, then they came back, and no songs would validate)  Since then I see a lot of people complain about song validation, outages, etc.  A tonne of things that drive listeners from the feeds, and make it more difficult for them to hit the 130hr/month quota.  They b**** and complain constantly about the problems, and how Radionomy is killing their station.  But not once do they come to realization that it's a FREE service. They aren't paying anything, thus Radionomy does not owe them a damn thing.  Very few have said "To hell with this..." like I had.  I pay what I think is a very reasonable amount of money for my stream host.  I am in control of what is on my stream.  I do not have to insert someone else's ads for who knows what, that I may not even know about, because people in different parts of the world hear different advertising. It's all gone.  All for less than the cost of one beer at a pub a month! (Just for the streaming)  My whole station (stream host, royalties & webhost) costs me about one beer out a week.  Or one Starbucks coffee.  Or a nice bottle of wine a month. I think I can eliminate that from my expenses for my station.

ignitenz

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 10:02:00 PM »
How many listeners can you have serving your own feed?  And does having more listeners increase your bandwidth usage incrementally?  My service allows for 200 listeners at one time, and I only eat bandwidth for streaming to them.$600!  ??? Ouch!  We're lucky here in Canada, it's about $100 annually + a percentage of your advertising income.  I do it for my sanity  :bash: and don't sell ads on my station!  Plus being a one man outfit, I don't have time to deal with those matters.

We're just starting out, so I'm not sure how many listeners we can get on. But as we only have the one stream, at 128kbps, with a 30Mb VDSL upload I'm hopeful it'll be more than enough to serve  an initial 100 listeners at a time. Testing so far has produced very pleasing results within our target audience (within NZ).

Yeah, I thought $600 bites too. Interestingly though, there is a deal for those with an LPFM station which also covers online streams, which is $260NZ per year. Oh, and one of the terms of my license is it only covers airplay within New Zealand. If I want the stream to be heard outside of our borders, I need to apply to individual countries for licensing there. So, I guess if I get too many listeners from overseas, that will be the reason for going to a paid provider - so they can provide geoblocking. But, sadly, it is what it is.

RFU

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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 11:30:38 AM »
But not once do they come to realization that it's a FREE service. They aren't paying anything, thus Radionomy does not owe them a damn thing.

I have to disagree. Radionomy may provide the service to the user for free but they monetize it and make money from it, so yes, they do owe them a damned thing
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Re: Is Internet Radio Being Killed Off?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 06:12:26 PM »
I have to disagree. Radionomy may provide the service to the user for free but they monetize it and make money from it, so yes, they do owe them a damned thing
Except that lately it sounds like the advertising seems to be all Fillers, PSAs & "Jamendo Music"  Makes me wonder if anyone is advertising with their "Target Spot"