ASIO Question

[mje4him]

I did try and research the forums before I posted, and did not find any valid answers on this topic.

We operate a live FM radio station using RadioDJ and I need to incorporate a real mixer into the system.  While I realize we could run analog out of the back of the computer to various channels on the board, we actually use digital (optical/AES) from the computer all the way to our Natuel VS300 transmitter. This alleviates analog noise and completely eliminates the possibility of lightning ever backfeeding to the servers and computer (pretty hard for lighting to travel across plastic optical wire).

Unfortunately, most "real" mixers that interface with computers utilize ASIO drivers. I have seen a couple people post about them, but I am not knowledgeable enough to understand why they can't be incorporated into RadioDJ.

If I am missing something, I would appreciate some correction.
If this is something that is time related, I would be happy to pay someone for their time to work on this plugin so long as it stays open source and available to all.

I would like to use something like a Behringer x32 (I know Behringer makes us cringe... but since they combined with Midas they have improved GREATLY! ). The goal would be to have inputs on the mixer reflect various elements in RDJ... Obviously Main input, Cue, Aux Player 1-3, Instant player.

Thanks All!
Matt Elroy
Station Manager 105.9FM KDFJ
Fairbanks, Alaska
matt@kdfj.org

[FreerunMedia]

Well to answer a little of your question, EAS/EBU has only 2 channels at 48k and 4 channels at 32khz. Multiple outputs would be dificult to do it this way. If you want more outputs over an optical fiber you'll need ADAT. This contains 8 channels at 48khz and up, in or output. In and output use different ADAT connetions.

The Behringer X32 is a stage mixer so even though workable for doing a radio show, it is not the best option. With the right drivers you could connect the USB to the computer and see if you can use it as a multiple in/out soundcard. As far as i know you can only use it for recording or sending audio like it is a "2 track" machine.

The i use the radio console ( Eela SBM90 ) in a live situation is running RadioDJ as my radio automation playing during the off hours and switching the optical live input when we need to go live. We are doing this through Events by stopping the playlist and switching the live input on air. In the studio we have another version of RadioDJ up and running that can play through the mixer. After the hour, RadioDJ automation takes over again and plays the news and TOTH jingle. After that it depends, we go on with live or non-stop takes over, this is also done by events.

The only drawback is you have a one second delay on the live input. We solved this by starting the first song or program jingle when there is one second left of the TOTH jingle and switch to the console. Going back to the automation we start a song and during that last song we switch back to the automation monitoring. A workaround but it works. You could solve this by using a little 2 channel mixer with the output of RadioDJ automation and the main studio both open faders and just listen to the output of that mixer, you don;t have any delay than.

[mje4him]

Yes, the x32 is a stage/studio board, however I don't see the advantage of a $10k+ board to accomplish the same thing.
Interestingly (and this is what caught my eye) it has 32x32 through USB.
Therefore, what needs to happen is for RADIODJ to be able to recognize output channels 1-32 on the X32, I would not plan on using input channels - it is way too laggy.

The goal would be to assign say...
Channels 1-6 Microphone (nothing to do with RadioDJ)
Channel 7-8 RadioDJ main output
Channel 9 Instant Players
Channel 10-12 Aux Players
channel 13 cue
etc.
Guest can use the Behringer Personal monitors hooked to headphones. We've used these in live events with almost NO noticeable lag whatsoever.

So the question remains, how could we get RADIODJ to recognize the X32's 32 inputs over USB?

[FreerunMedia]

Well the thing i can think of is a driver. When you connect it to a computer, does it see it as a 32 in and 32 out soundboard? It should work with Audition or protools but if the computer can see it as a 32 in and 32 out soundcard you are on tracks.

Now the thing is that you need to put it somehow on air. Is RadioDJ doing that or is the audio coming straight from the mix console? Through RadioDJ, live input either optical or analogue line in, has a delay of 1 second.

What you can try is download ASIO drivers and see if it works. Most of the times it is straight forward but if the current setup is a live setup that should work 24/7, test it on another computer. At a local station in the Netherlands they use a M-Audio Delta 1010 and 4 editions of RadioDJ, all on a seperate audio output. If the computer can see the mixer like that than you could do amazing things but you have to try.

About the setup i would sugest to keep main on 2 channels, instant on 2 and aux on 2 channels. The cue/preview i would send it through an aux input that you can prelisten with one button. If it is on a fader it can happen that it is switched on air, something you don't want.

[Filip83]

if you don't use more than 2 stereo outputs from rdj you could potentially us voicemeter banana.

http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/banana.htm

Can't stress enough how good that software is. Should be good enough for just about any application.

[mje4him]

Thank - trying to get away from having any more software running though.

[FreerunMedia]

if you don't use more than 2 stereo outputs from rdj you could potentially us voicemeter banana.

http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/banana.htm

Can't stress enough how good that software is. Should be good enough for just about any application.

Up to the point it isn't free anymore. Than suddenly everyone has a problem. ;-) ( No i don't like to work with virtual mixers. I prefer the real buttons and cables on a 24/7 station )

[Filip83]

Of course everyone prefers to use hardware...

But If you want to use ASIO drivers imo this is the way to go. Banana is free (donationware) and it's amazing piece of software. Even if it was not free I would guarantee it's well worth the buy.
It works flawlessly and the amount of things it enables you to do is just amazing. It is like a Swiss army knife for audio.

Really all you need is 2 stereo channels. 1 for streaming and 1 for monitoring. Banana allows you to have 3 hardware outputs and 2 virtual outputs. same for inputs. And you can control banana via MIDI.

I hope you will be able to make it work somehow, let us know what you come up with.

[DJ Garybaldy]

Thank - trying to get away from having any more software running though.

I don't get what the BIG problem is with having to use another piece of software alongside RadioDJ to route the final audio to the encoder/encoding program.

Anything that helps your station sound "Professional" has to be worth using surely?

I've heard nothing but good things about Voicemeeter Banana.

[Brodephat]

I own the X32 as well as other multiple in/out hardware devices.

The issue is not RadioDJ per say but its has everything to do with how those hardware manufacturers design their drivers.

Pretty much with every hardware i have owned or used will only show two in and two out for Windows audio programs, but studio recording software can access all the inputs and outputs.

Sure it would be cool if RDJ could access the available ins/outs but not everyone has or needs it so it's not a high priority.

I do know the next version of RDJ will use the Windows WASAPI audio engine but not sure how that will translate with hardware that has more than 4 in's and outputs.

[FreerunMedia]

I don't get what the BIG problem is with having to use another piece of software alongside RadioDJ to route the final audio to the encoder/encoding program.

Anything that helps your station sound "Professional" has to be worth using surely?

I've heard nothing but good things about Voicemeeter Banana.

It's not the software, it has everything to do with the amount of software running on one computer. Yes an i7 with ( fictious ) 25 cores, 120gb of ram and 10TB of drive space running one OS still can give you a lot of headaches. Drivers not working, OS crashing out on you. Think about this. You started some radiostations. Commercial income is 5k a month. 5 stations running on one i7 gamers setup. If the OS crashes for any reason, 5 stations are down! If the problem is solved and you still suffer driver problems, 5 channels down and still no commercial broadcasted.

A computer can't Multi task, it just switches between jobs very fast. Of one job gets stuck, the system halts. Running a 24/7 station you don't want to have any downtime. To prevent that you don't want too much stuff running on one computer that can cause a crash of a system. Software can help but it's not the great miracle everyone is waiting for. ( Ever updated a system? How many times there were problems? )

From a professional broadcaster some advise: better invest in real equepment that can be rebooted in one second than one computer that reboots in 5 minutes.

( Anyone asking: My automation rebooted from 0 within 45 seconds, studio operational in a flick of a switch. Live assist computer operational in 35 seconds )